What-If-Wednesday: Hogan and Flair at Wrestlemania 8

If you search through YouTube or elsewhere on the web, you'll often come across videos or lists of pro wrestling's greatest (or infamous) missed booking opportunities. And more times than I can count, I've seen commentators bemoan the fact that we did not see a Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan title bout at Wrestlemania 8. I mean how could a company just throw money down the drain like that!?

Well, I'm going to do something a little different with today's What-If-Wednesday. Instead of forecasting a totally different chain of events, I'm going to defend the WWF's booking of the event (just a bit), and offer a slightly different approach to what actually occurred.

The Actual Timeline:

I think most readers of this site will be familiar with the story, but I'll provide a quick recap. In 1991, Ric Flair had enough of WCW --- especially company head Jim Herd who had (among other things) suggested Flair shave his head and become a centurion character.  In September of that year, Flair appeared on WWF television, and aligned himself with Bobby Heenan (who had been promoting the fact that the REAL world's champion was coming to the WWF) in one of the most dramatic entrances in wrestling history.

After feuding with Roddy Piper (RIP), Flair would constantly antagonize Hulk Hogan that he was the real world's champion, and it seemed logical that the two would face-off at Wrestlemania 8. Flair was an entrant in the 1992 Royal Rumble wherein the winner would become WWF Heavyweight Champion (I realize I'm skipping over Survivor Series and the Undertaker / Hogan championship rematch, but editing!) After lasting most of the match, Flair tossed Sid Justice over the top rope, and became WWF Champion. Afterward, Flair delivered one of the greatest promos in wrestling history (and I can't seem to find a good clip of it online).

Which leads us to Hogan vs Flair for the WWF Championship at Wrestlemania! Right?

Of course, that's not what happened: Flair would lose the belt to Randy Savage in a great match at that year's 'Mania, while Hogan would face Justice in the "second" main event of the evening in a clusterfuck of a match that featured run-ins from Papa Shango and the Ultimate Warrior.

So what changed from September to the following April? Why did the company shift gears from a champion versus champion superbout to a "double" main event? Well, there are a number of reasons for this: Flair and Hogan squared off at a number of house shows throughout the country, but those events didn't draw as well as the company would have hoped. Second, a number of other sources claim that Hogan wouldn't do the job to Flair, which....yeah, that seems about right.

But the elephant in the room was the burgeoning steroid scandal plaguing the WWF. In 1991, a Pennsylvania doctor, George Zahorian, was indicted and convicted on federal charges for illegally selling steroids. Soon after, reports were beginning to surface in the press with allegations about rampant steroid abuse by employees of the company, especially Hogan. After appearing on television and denying he used drugs, Hogan began to receive a lot of media scrutiny, and he and the company decided it was time for him to lay low for awhile.

The Aftermath / Rationale:

After Mania, in short order this is what happens: Hogan leaves, Savage duels with the Warrior, Savage loses the belt to Flair, Flair loses the belt to Hart, Flair goes back to WCW, and the WWF barely survives the Steroid Trial.

While I'm not an expert, and if I'm wrong in my analysis here, please let me know, it's difficult to not to come to a few conclusions about all of this. On the one hand, the WWF decided to go with a formula here that had worked in the past: Hogan working against a huge rival (Justice), and then bringing in another big star with that "WWF-look" (Ultimate Warrior) to try and fill the void. At the same time, the company was in a difficult spot with Hogan: while he was still popular, he was increasingly becoming less popular with a lot of fans (if you watch the 1992 Royal Rumble, there's a palatable sense of disinterest from the crowd when Hogan is tossed over the rope). In addition, Hogan  certainly had some amount of creative control here, so you couldn't bury him on the card. And yet, he's damaged goods (from a PR standpoint), so you have an overbooked match on the card that distracts the crowd from A) the controversy surrounding Hogan and B) the general craziness of the match itself.

Again, that's not to say the WWF could have booked this entire event better, but they were in a difficult spot. At the same time, and please don't attack me for this, Flair didn't quite fit into the WWF world as well as he could have. That's not a knock against Flair, but compare his character with the rest of the roster in 1991-92: sure, he works well against Piper, Savage, Hart, and Mr. Perfect, but Flair still carried a lot of his more gritty, NWA-style approach to wrestling that didn't quite translate to the "sports-entertainment" style of wrestling in the WWF. As such, perhaps Flair vs Savage -- which was a great match by the way -- would make more sense than Hogan vs Flair.

Plus, we got the great doctored-photos storyline from Savage vs Flair.

The New Timeline:

All that said, let's try a new timeline out. Flair vs Hogan at Wrestlemania 8. I wouldn't change the build-up at all: Flair still wins the Royal Rumble, still cuts that amazing promo, Hogan is still named number-one contender, etc. And this is important: there's no change to steroid allegations. I can't change external historical, socio-economic, cultural forces folks. If I could, Barack Obama would be entering his 3rd term in office, and the Flyers would have won the Cup in 1987, 2004, and 2010.

All that said, imagine the hype leading up to their match. Despite the whispers of steroids, people would be incredibly excited about seeing the two most famous wrestlers of the 1980s square off at the Hoosier Dome. Perhaps you even have Flair acknowledge the accusations on television, thereby building more heat against him for the match.

Again, this is risky. Like I said before, people were turning against Hogan by the time of Wrestlemania 8, and there was a contingent of WWE audiences who were (as I recall) solidly behind Flair. I suspect that worst, you would have a replay of Wrestlemania 6's main event where the crowd is divided between the two wrestlers.

And, in short, Flair beats Hogan. Flair is the undisputed "greatest" champion of wrestling; meanwhile, Hogan takes time off. Flair can feud with Randy Savage in the summer, then perhaps Brett Hart in the winter. At some point, Flair leaves just as he does in the regular timeline. He might stay in the WWF for longer than he did originally, but I can't see him in the WWF for very much longer than a couple years in the early 1990s (he seems like he would be even more out of place with the super-goofy gimmicks that started to dominate the company during the time). That might be surprising, but it's common knowledge that Flair longed to return to WCW / NWA, and the company was ready to move in a younger direction by 1993 (Hart, Michaels, Ramon, etc.)

Nor would this shift have any real impact on Hogan. He'd still return in 1993 to the company, he'd still insert himself into Wrestlemaina 9's main event, he'd still go to WCW in 1995, and he'd still fight Flair in the main event of that year's Bash at the Beach. But the impact of that would be diminished since he would have to be billed as a rematch, not their "first" meeting or something the WWF could not provide.

*Hogan materializes in my apartment*

Hogan: WOW, AND THEN THE HULKSTER WOULD GO OVER ON PUNY RIC FLAIR AND BEGIN TO DOMINATE THE WRESTLING WORLD ONCE AGAIN BROTHER!

Me: Oh for fuck's sake. Not again. Look, that was nice, but don't you remember your feud with the Dungeon of Doom after that?

Hogan: UH....NO BROTHER!!

Me: The Yeti?

Hogan:

Me:

Hogan: HOW ABOUT THE NWO??? THAT WAS TOO SWEET!

Me: Yeah, that was incredible. But then came Starcade 1997 and...

Hogan: *puts fingers in ears* LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU BROTHER!!

Me: Right....

*Ric Flair pulls up to my apartment in a limo, comes in through the front door*

Flair: WOOOOOO! ALLLLLL RIGHT! THE NATURE BOY IS HERE! WOOO!

Me: This is nuts...

Flair: WHOA, WHOA, WHOA --- HOLD IT RIGHT THERE SON! MY SHOES COST MORE THAN YOUR CAR!! HOW DARE YOU TALK TO THE SIXTEEN TIME, WORLD'S CHAMPION LIKE THAT!!

Hogan: THAT'S RIGHT BROTHER!! WHY, WHEN THE NATURE BOY AND THE HULKSTER GET TOGETHER, NO ONE'S STOPPING US!!!

Me: Like your horrible matches in TNA?

Hogan:.....

Flair:.....

Me:......

Flair: WOW, YOU ARE ONE WILD, SON OF A GUN! I LIKE YOUR STYLE!! THE NATURE BOY WOULD LOVE YOUR AUTOGRAPH!!!

*Flair hands me a document*

Me: Wow, I've never been asked for an autograph.....*signs*....I mean, this is so....*pauses*..Wait: is this a loan application?

*Flair hits me in the back of head with a belt. Before I pass out, I hear a loud "WOOOOOOOOOO" in my ear, and then tires screeching. When I come to, my liquor cabinet has been cleaned out, and there are six voicemails on my phone from the delinquent accounts department of the First Bank of North Carolina.*

So that's the latest What-If-Wednesday! I hope you enjoyed, and if you have suggestions for the next installment, email me at [email protected], or message us on Twitter or Facebook!

Top V: Wrestlers Who Would Thrive in the TWIN PEAKS Universe

Last Sunday, Showtime aired the fist two episodes of the Twin Peaks revival. After 25 years off the air, David Lynch and Mark Frost's absurdist satire / homage to soap operas, detective shows, and horror films, returned to the air and I watched in delight. My first viewing of Twin Peaks wasn't until a few years ago, but I was transfixed by the series for a variety of reasons, and I've spent a lot of time discussing the show with friends, family, and random strangers at bars, coffee shops, and online.

Of course, professional wrestling shares a lot of similarities with Twin Peaks: weird plot lines, soap opera-style narratives, odd characters, horror...uh...fish in percolators? As such, it seemed natural for me to begin to fantasy book wrestlers who would fit into the Twin Peaks universe.

Look, I have a lot of time on my hands. Don't judge me.

Before I get to my Top V list here (which isn't five, but again, don't judge), I wanted to get a few things out of the way: first, you won't see overtly weird or scary wrestlers on this list as they don't fit into the Lynch / Frost universe of Twin Peaks. Kane is scary (and mighttttt work as a figure in the Black Lodge), but he doesn't fit in the world. Nor does the Undertaker. Nor do most gimmick personas. One of the hard things about crafting this list was finding a balance between weird, quirky, scary, and earnestness in the characters of these wrestlers that -- in my mind -- made them plausible figures in the town of Twin Peaks.

Also, I want to give a shout-out to friend-of-the-site Ron Felten for some suggestions!

And yes: I came up with this list based on a dream I had; I also cut down the list by throwing rocks at a glass bottle while calling out the names of various wrestlers. I did accidentally hit Rick in the head with a rock, but he was fine after some coffee and doughnuts.

Missed the Cut: Daniel Bryan

At first glance, the "Beard" seems to be a natural fit for a television series set in the Pacific Northwest: his dad was a logger after all. But one of the tricky things about characters in the Twin Peaks universe is that they aren't naturalistic or realistic characters (although you could make an exception for Leo?) In any event, I think Daniel Bryan would be better served as an extra on a more realistic show set in the Pacific Northwest.

Hmm. On second thought, I'd be okay with Bryan just walking up and down highways around Twin Peaks doing the "Yes!" gesture in total silence. 

Guest Appearance: Honky Tonk Man

Having someone on their show who is the embodiment of an Elvis impersonator seems a bit too on the nose quirky / obvious for Frost and Lynch, but it's hard to deny that the Honky Tonk Man would be an excellent background character. Perhaps Honky Tonk Man could check into the Great Northern Hotel while Cooper and Truman were enjoying breakfast (and they would not give him another look).

But I think the best use of Honky Tonk Man would be if he was a regular at the Double R Diner who, like his character, acted like Elvis, but recoiled at the idea he was Elvis; instead, Honky Tonk Man should claim that Elvis stole everything -- the sideburns, the music, the outfits -- from him.

*has vision of Honk Tonk Man doing a "shoot" video in 2019 where he calls David Lynch a "big fat losing whiner who almost got his head kicked-in."*

Andre the Giant

I almost didn't include Andre the Giant to this list, given that A) there's already a giant in Twin Peaks and B) it seemed a bit too obvious.  But after a couple of glasses of wine (Andre would have had a couple bottles), I decided that Andre fit too perfectly into the Twin Peaks universe to be ignored.

While Andre's size and demeanor certainly would have helped his character transition into Twin Peaks, I think what convinced me to include him was his voice: it's deep, yet almost other-worldly, and while Andre spent a great deal of his life in the United States, he never lost his strong French accent. Taken together, Andre's voice has a near-Lynchian quality to it, and it's very easy for me to imagine Andre appearing into the Black Lodge.

God, can you imagine Andre's voice played backwards and forwards?

Dolph Ziggler

Let me get this out of the way first: I really don't get Dolph Ziggler. I know a lot of wrestling fans adore the guy, and he's talented in the ring, but....meh. I've never been compelled by his character or storylines.

Also, he oversells like crazy. In a world where seemingly no one sells anymore, he's somehow overselling. There's a fine line people.

All that said, Dolph would fit in very well in the Twin Peaks universe. He's a very solid combination of hokey / dorky, but also with an arrogance that aligns with most of the male characters of the show. Perhaps he could a relative of Bobby who comes to town and gets into a confrontation with James? If so, James would probably punch Dolph, and Dolph would be knocked down to the ground and begin to roll away. In fact, he'd probably keep on rolling out of Twin Peaks. See, he oversells much in the same way Rick and I beat jokes into the ground.

Nick Bockwinkel and Bobby Heenan

Okay, this is another cheat here, but the best manager / wrestler duo in professional wrestling history would be a great addition to the town of Twin Peaks. In lieu of detailing how seamlessly Bockwinkel and Heenan would fit into the town with their combination of intellectualism and humor, I've included some possible roles for the two:

-Out-of-town businessmen who are interested in investing in the Ghostwood project
-Senior FBI Agents who challenge Cooper at every turn
-Angry clients at One Eyed Jack's
-Competing candidates for the mayor or senate --- or Bockwinkel as the Senator and Heenan as his campaign manager

In any of these scenarios, you have television gold.

Leaping Lanny Poffo

If you know me, you are probably aware of my adoration of Macho Man Randy Savage. And know this: adding Randy Savage to most anything makes it better: hell, Randy Savage might actually improve Season 3 of Fargo.

But Randy Savage might be too big for the world of David Lynch. Instead, I'm going to suggest that Savage's brother, Lanny Poffo, might be better the better fit here. Lanny always has had a unique combination of brains, flamboyance, and pretension that seems to align with the world of Twin Peaks.

I think Poffo should be a resident of the town who, like the Log Lady, just appears at the diner or the sheriff's office and reads his poems. Most of them will be non sequiturs (and perhaps espouse odd rhetoric), but you know damn well Hawk and Cooper will spend episodes drying to decipher the meaning of Poffo's poems.

Bret Hart

Picture Harry Truman from Twin Peaks. Think of how he speaks, his body language, and his demeanor. Now picture Bret Hart. Think of how he speaks, his body language, and demeanor. Very similar yes? While Hart is more arrogant, they both share a lot of characteristics -- especially a mutual interest in doing the right thing (within reason). They also share a willingness to go rogue if the moment calls for it.

Not only does Hart share a lot of qualities with Truman, he also has a style that just seems to blend into Twin Peaks. When I was thinking of this list, I thought almost immediately that "Bret Hart would be a natural on the show." And I have to admit that I can't totally express why. He just seems to fit the universe. He's not overly weird or quirky, but his dangerous earnestness works with and against many of the characters on the show -- just as Truman, Hawk, and the One-Armed Man operate nearly perfectly with and in opposition to Cooper, the Log Lady, etc.

Plus, Hart would totally go into the Black Lodge and come out a heel (with a little piece of Bob in him). You know you want to see that.

So there we have it! My five (well, eight) wrestlers who would fit into the Twin Peaks universe. Disagree with me? Well, let's discuss it over coffee and pie! Or via Facebook or Twitter. Whichever is easier.

Mailbag of Shame: Questions About Wrestling from Non-Wrestling Fans

Howdy! Once again, it's time for the Mailbag of Shame! This time, I tried to do something different: I requested questions from non-wrestling fans about pro wresting (and also asked wrestling fans for questions they've been asked from non-wrestling fans), and sought to answer them as best as I can.

One note: I got a few repeats for "what are wrestling fan archetypes," but I soon realized I needed an entire post to answer that question.

Remember: if you have a question for Mailbag of Shame, contact us on Twitter, Facebook, or via email. Or carrier pigeon.

How do you know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?

Well, the "heel" is the bad guy who gets booed. And the "face" is the good guy who gets cheered.....Except sometimes the face gets booed, while the heel gets cheered. Or the face does horrible things, but we are still supposed to cheer him when we should align with the heel. Or there's no real reason for the guys to fight each other, but they are.

Look, it's complicated.

When you go to an independent show, figuring this out is usually easier. The guy who attacks the other guy before the bell, insults the audience, taunts his opponent, etc. is the heel. The face will be the guy who exudes "good guy" vibes as he comes to the ring, tries to get fans on his side, and attempts to fight fair.

In televised wrestling, it's sometimes harder to figure this relationship out, and there's honestly a good case to be made that the traditional heel / face dynamic is extinct. Or, at the very least, I think fans see a little more complexity to that dynamic. But then there are times where I think the story-line between wrestlers NEEDS a clear heel and face. I know Rick and I have complained about this a lot, but the booking of the recent Wyatt and Orton feud was terrible in its presentation. Again, RANDY ORTON BURNED DOWN WYATT'S HOME AND WAS THE 'GOOD GUY' SOMEHOW.

*falls to the ground, curls into fetal position, sobs*

Has anyone ever accidentally died from a pile-driver?

The pile-driver is, as wrestling fans know and many non-wrestling fans see, a dangerous move. As such, it's rarely used. Currently, Kane is the only WWE wrestler permitted to use it, although it makes more frequent appearances in Japanese wrestling.

To my knowledge, no one has died from a pile-driver -- but Stone Cold Steve Austin came close in his match with Owen Hart in 1997. Austin suffered a severe-neck injury from this move -- one that permanently hampered his in-ring work and gave him years of health problems -- and was incredibly lucky he wasn't paralyzed or killed.

Is that guy really bleeding?

Even though it's rare to see in contemporary wrestling, yes. And if you're watching an older match, yes. "Blading" or "getting color" has a long tradition in pro wrestling: wrestlers would cut themselves on the forehead or eyebrow with hidden razor blades at opportune moments in matches to heighten the realism and drama of the event. Wrestlers would also get bonuses from promoters for blading as the thinking went (in the pre-1980s) that such moments drew more money.

In today's WWE, blading is taboo for a variety of reasons. Primarily it's because of increased understanding of the dangers of bleeding people coming into contact with other people, but also because the company wants to maintain PG-style entertainment (there are numerous stories of wrestlers being fined by the company for intentionally blading, including Ric Flair and Batista). But if you see a wrestler bleeding in a match today, it's still real but accidental. It's very easy to a wrestler's planned kick or slap to miss its target, and for noses to break, lips to split, etc.

In short, wrestlers don't use fake blood and they are bleeding. If you see red on my face, however, it's BBQ sauce in my beard.

Why is everyone booing Roman Reigns?

They aren't booing; they are saying "boo-urns!"......Alright, raise your hand if you saw that joke coming from us.

*sees everyone's hands raised*

Short answer: a lot of wrestling fans don't like Roman Reigns. But this wasn't always the case. About three years ago, Reigns was part of a popular group called the Shield with Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose. After The Shield split up, Reigns was pushed by the WWE as their next major face and eventual champion.

I suppose in some ways, Reigns's shift to an individual wrestler showcased a few flaws in his game, especially his (at times) inability to sell moves of opponents (to act as those the attacks of your opponent look real) and he had (and maybe still has) pretty poor skills on the microphone. But a lot of popular wrestlers have limited move-sets (Kevin Nash) and have poor microphone skills (Daniel Bryan), so those can't be the only reasons for the boos.

Hence, the long answer: The WWE's push of Roman Reigns happened and is happening at a weird time where the fan base feels very open to airing their grievances with the company. While there's a long tradition of fans rejecting the narrative being told to them by a company in the ring (see Hogan vs Bockwinkel in the AWA or Hogan at Wrestlemania IX), fans are increasingly aware of the backstage politics of wrestling companies because of the internet, and as such, are far more keenly aware of which wrestler a company wants to promote or which wrestler is being punished by a company and pushed down a card. So for a lot of fans, Reigns's push came at the expense of other wrestlers who the fans felt were more deserving of being placed at the top of the card -- especially Daniel Bryan, who started his career in smaller wrestling companies and was often the victim of bad booking decisions by management. Reigns's push also happened not long after the popular CM Punk left the company, so fan anger toward the company was fairly high

There's also the issue of how "on-screen" management of the company (which is also off-screen management of the company) presents themselves as villains, and have sorta booked themselves into a corner where their "chosen" guy seems to automatically get the ire of fans. But that's another post for another day.

How many adults watch this? How does the WWE fill stadiums?

A lot. Enough to fill a football stadium. Moving on.

*sighs* Fine.

There are obviously a lot of fans of professional wrestling, but it's hard to quantify that number. From an optics perspective, there are clearly enough wrestling fans to fill an NFL-sized football stadium for Wrestlemania and to fill hockey arenas weekly for RAW and Smackdown; in addition, there are roughly 1.5 million subscribers to the WWE Network. But appearances are deceiving: at last year's Wrestlemania, the WWE claimed attendance of over 100,000 people -- but the real number was closer to 74,000; at RAW tapings, the arena looks completely full, but remember the "backstage" area cuts-off about a third of the building. And there's a lot of skepticism about WWE Network numbers (people join for a few weeks, then leave, or leave after a free trial).

So, there are a lot of wrestling fans, and enough for "fill" a football stadium once a year, but I don't think there are as many wrestling fans currently as there were 20 years ago.

Why? Why do you watch?

I think wrestling fans have all had to answer this question in some form or another at some point in their lives. While I can't speak for Rick, I know this is a really difficult question to answer for me to answer competently.

As evidenced by this website, I enjoy the ludicrousness of professional wrestling, but also the construction of good stories, good matches, and being surprised (I did freak out a little when the Hardy Brothers appeared at the last Wrestlemania). Additionally, part of my continued interest in wrestling is because of nostalgia: I grew up watching wrestling as a kid in the 1980s, and I watched ECW, WCW, and WWE programs until the early 2000s, so I'm sure part of me wants to relive some of those moments. There was something thrilling about seeing the NWO form in 1996 or feeling that I was part of an "underground" movement by watching ECW, and I know part of me longs for those days.

But I'm also a person who distrusts nostalgia as a concept for a variety of reasons, and I haven't come back to wrestling as an adult solely because of a desire to reconnect with teenage me. As an academic, I write about theatre, literature, and culture -- see my rambling piece about Trump and the confidence artist and wrestling here -- and wrestling as a performance art borrows not just from the carnival tradition, the confidence scheme, mythology, and theatre, but it also reveals the good, the bad, and the ugly of the cultures it represents. I remember having a conversation with a professor years ago wherein the professor defended pro wrestling as one of the best avenues to see the "zeitgeist" of America at any moment. So I suppose it gives me a window into what a good chunk of America is thinking about at a specific time.

Well, I hope I answered your questions about wrestling. I tried, at the very least.

We've Been Busy!

Hi all!

We've been busy! I've been mired in being a dad, grading papers....and watching hockey. Rick's been mired in work, being a dad.....and watching hockey.

Oh, also we've both been trying to  keep up with Watergate II!! Can you believe Trump did that? Or that? Or tweeted that? We can't!

Anyway, look for new posts from us next week and in the near future, including:

-A new Mailbag of Shame from me featuring questions about wrestling from non-wrestling fans!
.
-A new What-If-Wednesday about Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan in the WWF!

-Rick and I will put our heads together and predict the future of the WWE!

-Looking ahead to June, Rick has graciously and selflessly volunteered to write about Alison Brie's Netflix series about the Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling while I will pen a couple pieces about the history of the famed 1980s tv series!

As always, we appreciate our loyal readers out there. Give us a follow on Twitter, look at our older pieces, and share us on your feeds! Spread the shameful word!